- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.ml
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Cool that average FPS is better but:
The impressive FPS deltas aside, it should be mentioned that, with the exception of Arch Linux, average frame times (measured as 1% lows, in this case) on Linux were generally behind what Windows managed by up to 20%
I feel like worse 1% lows makes this title misleading. Hopefully with time this gap will close.
1 % lows are likely a driver thing (Nvidia calls it “Game Ready Drivers”), with Arch you’ll get new drivers (or kernel versions) much earlier, similar to Windows.
… Then why did they get the results that they did in the article?
The article specifies arch as an exception to that
Death, taxes and this post on Lemmy
i just saw this for the first time and it brought me joy
1 day cannot pass without this article getting reposted across various communities.
Yeah, these are getting really annoying.
I swear people just scroll through lemmy, see a post they like and then think to themselves, “this is cool, I should post this on lemmy!”
It’s okay. Lemmy isn’t a wiki. Content is organized temporally. Imagine these conversations as bar conversations (just because one group had a conversation one night, doesn’t mean another group can’t repeat it the next). If you are annoyed that the algo keeps giving you the same stuff, sort by All and New Comments and you’ll find niche communities to subscribe to.
As someone on Linux, and who thinks performance is generally slightly better on my machine after switching, I totally agree. This post has been old for a while now. Get some more data and then post that new thing or stop posting it.
A Lemmy option to hide posts of links already red in another post would be neat. (First time I see this one though)
Testing done on specific hardware and not a broad spectrum of machines is as relevant as asking one person their political opinion and saying that applies to their whole nation.
Well sure but rephrased it’s just “Three Linux distros that embarrass Windows 11 in gaming performance.” which to me, is equally interesting.
article title: windows DEAD LAST!
also in the same article: “… When it comes to FPS, the overall leader in testing was Nobara Linux, with Arch Linux and Pop!_OS trailing by 1–5%. Windows 11, however, was only 6% behind Nobara Linux. So, **there isn’t a massive performance delta here, **”
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is the point of article not to stroke the ego of the Linux absolutists that have some weird chip on their shoulders when it comes to video games?
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No it hasn’t, some games run better on the hardware tested when running Linux, some games don’t work at all on Linux whereas all games run on Windows.
Come back when they test multiple machines running various hardware and when they compare the experience setting up said machines to actually run the games.
You’re exactly the person this article was written for, someone who wants their opinion reinforced because they won’t take the time to analyze the data presented.
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gaming and the abundance of software and third party support and tutorials on windows is why I haven’t taken the dive to linux yet. So yeah, if linux does gaming as well or better my migration is more and more likely.
I’m gonna be that Linux bro and tell you to switch 😁 I made the full switch earlier this year and I’ve been amazed by how good proton is. There’s only been one game I couldn’t get to run until I did by installing some Microsoft VC runtime. Give it a shot! You just might be pleasantly surprised as I was.
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“on that one specific machine.”
You’re missing that part from your premise and it’s the important one.
Notice how they didn’t use one with an Nvidia GPU… Or even hardware released this year either…
Edit: Aaaw, I made you angwy and you downvoted me :(
The Nvidia drivers perform fine generally but it would be nice to verify it.
It’s funny because you say that and at the same time it’s the first question asked when someone has a hard time gaming on their Linux setup, “Nvidia GPU?”, even in this thread it’s come up.
The issue isn’t performance, it’s Nvidia’s unstable drivers.
E: fuck me, are people stupid? Performance and stability are not the same thing.
Performance on Nvidia cards on Linux is fine. The issue is the bizarre issues you have like multi-monitor weirdness or adaptive refresh rate not working properly. Nvidia’s drivers need kinks worked out but they aren’t slower.
You realise that not having access to stable drivers is a performance issue because it means games don’t run properly or at all?
“The issue isn’t my bike, it’s the bent wheels on it!”
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Irrelevant to someone that wants their game to run.
I didn’t say otherwise. We were talking performance, not stability, that’s why I said the word performance, then said Nvidia’s drivers were unstable.
Understand? Performance means performance and stability means stability. I can appreciate that might be hard to grasp, but they’re different words for a reason, and that reason is they mean different things.
I don’t know why I bother talking to morons on Lemmy who deliberately misinterpret what people say and use that as a gotcha. You’re not smart for using a straw man argument.
Nvidia needs to sort their shit out.
Nvidia isnt so bad if you’re on a stable distro it supports and using x(though Ive heard wayland support is improving for it). On rolling or more cutting edge distros where the kernel is likely to change every few weeks and major DE versions might ship that proprietary driver will hurt.
That said while amd is generally better on linux for this reason it’s worth mentioning that it has two huge flaws:
1.Its not perfect like the fans mention. As someone who owned a 3500u and 6650u apu life under amd isnt always sunny. 3500u had a kernel regression for about half a year that prevented the cpu from idling and rembrant apus have an issue where the whole system locks up which seems to come and go(feels like it’s gone for now but Ive thought that before). Desktop gpus are better, but they still did suffer from driver bugs. I think my experience with my 5600xt was better than windows fans had for that generation, but it was not entirely stable and I did suffer from many kernel panics and system freezes. A few mesa and kernel releases fixed that, but it wasnt perfectly smooth. In addition to that no hdmi 2.1 support which is fine unless you game using your nice oled tv because no tvs come with display port. Proprietary drivers do allow for supporting some of the more obnoxious features that arent allowed.
- It can vary gpu/cpu to gpu/cpu for how fresh your software will need to be, but generally newer hardware needs very new kernels just for basic support and it may need a few more releases to get stable or good. So if you want to just sit back with ubutnu LTS or debian you need to make sure the release cycle lines up with support for your hardware. The other end of the spectrum is that being on a bleeding or cutting edge distro can mean stability issues and regressions. So for example a month or three ago fedora pushed a kernel update that had a regression where my 6800xt gpu wouldnt clock up when utilized so gaming framerates tanked and retroarch shaders were choking up. I could just use the old kernel but I had to make sure that the kernel updates didnt bump it away. Also an entire point release and several releases after that before the bug was fixed.
So while there is a lot of pro amd comments in the linux world and its worth acknowledging that the open source drivers are generally good it’s not perfect and the grass isnt always greener.
Just from that comment we can see how far from mainstream adoption Linux is for gaming… You really need to want to understand how things work to fix things that might not work natively. Not every gamer wants to be super knowledgeable about computers, most just want to play games. Heck, I’m very good with computers and I know that what little time I have to play games I don’t want to spend trying to make them work…
What do the performance metrics look like for the games that won’t run on Linux?
About the same as Spiderman 2 or Ghost of Tsushima on Windows.
you mean the rootkits that won’t run on Linux?
When did ‘rootkit’ come to be a generic term for invasive software? Rootkits are a specific type of thing.
Anticheats that run in the NT kernel may as well be described as rootkits, especially as they aren’t transparent about exactly what they’re doing. Then there’s the question of what happens if they get compromised
Vanguard, BattlEye, EasyAntiCheat, Ricochet, etc… all run in the Windows Kernel and most, if not all, have the functionality to run arbitrary code, so might as well class them as rootkits.
If it has kernel level access and can run arbitrary code, that’s a rootkit.
It’s absolutely valid to call these systems rootkits.
Because “rootkit” sounds more ominous and scary than “kernel level anticheat” and the communities complaining about such things aren’t known to keep hyperbole to a minimum. Gotta push that FUD.
This article for instance, using language that insinuates a huge gap in performance between the Linux distros and windows, when it’s a 6% difference between the best and the worst, on one set of hardware.
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(They were not serious)
That’s the point they were trying to make. It was a facetious question.
…switching to Linux might be worthwhile for gamers on the move looking to eke out every last drop of performance from the ROG Ally or Lenovo Legion Go.
So they’re talking about the ROG Ally and Lenovo Legion Go not a desktop PC or a laptop. Nice clickbait.
I’m on a desktop running Pop and I bet my system performs better than an equal Windows system. These handhelds are actual PCs, bud.
They are just PCs though…? It’s just a different form factor.
Okay. But it’s still a clickbait title. Seeing how they said nothing handheld PCs in the title.
The article is referencing a benchmark that was run on desktop hardware so not clickbait. Likely they mentioned the handhelds in the article for ref link revenue.
Funny how they didn’t put in the article. Yet, I’m in the wrong thinking it’s about handheld PCs.
Nope, from the Tom’s Hardware source:
ComputerBase’s testing was done on an all-AMD test rig, featuring a Ryzen 7 5800X (non-3D) and a Radeon RX 6700 XT.
It’s still relevant that this was not running on a Nvidia GPU, IMO, but not about handheld PCs.
So you have to going to another article to get the full story. gg notebookcheck.net.
Also can you link the Tom’s Hardware article.
It’s linked as the source of the article in this link. I would have preferred OP link to it directly, assuming the actual source being in German was a dealbreaker, but it’s still linked alongside the TH at the bottom of this one.
I am not sure why you’re so adamant about a quote in the article that doesn’t say this is about handhelds and getting defensive about a source that is in fact linked in the same article.
For the record, also plainly stated in both articles, the differences in performance are fairly small in all runs, exempting one or two outliers, and seemingly the Windows 1% lows were higher. Despite the Linux fans’ overreporting these results, “Proton run good” is not an unexpected result.
the article that doesn’t say this is about handhelds
If we are talking about the Notebook Check article. The last paragraph is not helping you. Seeing that’s the only time they talk about hardware in the article. Just helps the confusion.
getting defensive about a source that is in fact linked in the same article.
All I did is ask for a link.
No, the last paragraph says that these results (seen on a desktop PC) suggest that if you’re on lower powered hardware (like a handheld) you may want to ditch the preinstalled Windows and try a Linux install to get a bit more performance.
Which is very debatable on a couple of counts, including the worse 1% lows, the fact that these desktop GPU results may or may not carry over to low TDP AMD APUs and that there’s no guarantee that you’ll get support for other custom features like the Legion Go’s funky detachable controllers. But that’s what it’s saying, not that the results are about handheld performance.
As for the other thing, man, you’re all over this thread being weirdly hostile, All I’m saying is you don’t have to be. This isn’t a big deal, the article isn’t clickbait and nobody is out to get you. There are actually enough things here that are interesting to debate without trying to make this about some weird journalism standards thing. Some of them are even about how shaky some of the reporting is, if that’s your angle. It’s just… not for the reasons you’re getting all worked up about.
They’re literally just PCs. They aren’t some mysterious thing. They’re using the same architectures a laptop or desktop would.
The article talks about those mobile systems, but the actual benchmark on Computerbase tested these on a desktop.
Ryzen 7 5800X
Scythe Mugen 5 cooler
Asus ROG Strix B550-A Gaming
32BG DDR4-3600-RAM (CL18-22-22-44)
Sapphire RX 6700 XT Nitro+
Tested @ 1080p 144Hz, Freesync Off
Out of touch comment.
Handheld PCs are PCs.
Linux bros will take anything.
Microsoft bros in denial.
Linux runs windows software faster than Windows can run Windows software.
You don’t need to get upset by that. You don’t owe MS anything. Be happy that more people can game.
Imagine being this tribalistic over an OS. Get a hobby.
Other way around, mate. I’m not the one crying and coming up with excuses and whatabouts when OS A does better than OS B in a benchmark.
Microsoft has done nothing for you. They don’t love you. They’re a 2.8 trillion dollar company. They can get by without you carrying water for them.
Get a hobby.
Literally never said anything of the sort.
Please go outside and get out of this toxic thinking. It’s not healthy for you.
Sure you didn’t.
I hope no more benchmarks offend you in the future.
Bye now.
You got offended. And several others it seems. By a joke, which you then immediately proved to be an accurate description of Linux users.
This is why more people don’t make the switch.
I still can’t get anything to run consistently in Linux after 10 years, and many, many distros. Timber born and Raft currently never open, no matter what. I a huge Linux user but the gamin experience has always been so finicky for me and no matter how much I try it’s still unattainable. And even when they run its with a lot of configution and tinkering unless it has native support. I have no issue with that but I’m so frustrated my experience with this seems so diffent than what everyone else is having. I want to delete my windows partition and it still feels so far away.
I’d be happy to help if you’d like I can play 90% or more of my library on Linux. Basically, if its in steam it’s a cake walk. I recommend something like Mint cinammon or pop_os all you need is proton really. I can’t run games with certain anti cheat like tarkov cause the anti cheat devs don’t support Linux
Running mint right now, went back to basics after a stint with majaro. I appreciate the offer but for now the windows distro stays and every few months I will try again. I know so many people have such a seamless experience. That is what makes it way more frustrating.
What have you been doing. Cause for me it’s just install steam enable proton and install pretty much any game on my library. Or install lutris login to my accounts and play epic games / gog games. It literally just works
Let me know when you get Witcher 2 to run on Linux. With some tinkering and magic settings, it can run. But it crashes so often it is bordering unplayable, using several different versions of Proton in Steam and Pop! Os.
I don’t own it but according to protondb it has native support for Linux
That’s fine. But it crashes constantly on Linux, rarely on Windows. Point being that not all games run fine on Linux.
I know this is a very common experience, but for me it fails. The list is too long but belive me I’ve tried it. It’s probably some weird driver issue or some thing I use for x y or z that conflicts. Who knows.
YMMV of course but I was playing Timberborn just the other day on Mint, on an Nvidia card, through Heroic. Proton seems to have been a gamechanger. I have just made my first steps into switching my daily driver myself. I may have been lucky but all the games I have wanted to play have worked so far. I also have a Steam Deck, which is what has encouraged me that it may be possible.
Heroic
This. While the experience for Gaming on linux is still not perfect, or as easy as install and play, Heroic is a good start. It still requires configuration and many hidden configs are not always obvious for the user, but I managed to run every game I threw at it flawlessly so far. All AAA games, and games from 2000 (Hitman, C&C games, Jazz Jackrabbit etc…), GoW, Cyberpunk, Hogwarts, etc. On a RTx 2070.
Between Steam, Lutris, and Heroic I can run every game I’ve tried on Linux.
Damn, I was thinking about switching but I play alot of Timberborn.
I play quite a bit of timberborn, worked just fine. Had some sound issues but changing to proton experimental fixed them.
I’ve got >500hours in Timberborn on Ubuntu. Runs flawlessly and never had an issue.
this game is actually fun? what would you compare it to?
It’s Rimworld mixed with Sim City in an amusement water park.
( •_•)>⌐■-■
It’s also technically a post apocalypse setting.
thanks im gonna try sexing with it
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Nvidia GPU?
I’ve been out of the industry for a while, but unless Windows was completely rewritten from the ground up in the last 5 years, this doesn’t surprise me. That OS has always been a hot, bloated mess. And no, I’m not a Linux bro. I use another heavily commercialised OS that doesn’t run Windows because I no longer have the energy to care.
An OS written on Unix can outperform Windows? I’m shocked.
I wonder if they did these tests using ray tracing or not. On my AMD 7900xt in Cyberpunk, ray tracing under linux is practically unusable levels of performance compared to windows .
Safe bet, they didn’t. Seeing they’re talking about the ROG Ally and Lenovo Legion Go.
radv is gradually catching up with amdvlk in terms of rtrt perf. could be worth using amdvlk for raytacing for now, though
windows is overbloated garbage
News flash, Windows is garbage.
Jawohl, jawohl.
This has been reposted enough to where I’m going to start blocking accounts that continue to post it 😎
I think it’s a combination of reposting on Lemmy, multiple communities posting similar stories, and news sites regurgitating results from other sites like it’s fresh news.
Agree. My gripe with this article is that I’ve seen it posted on ~6+ communities. I love that Linux is beating windows in gaming benchmarks, but I think the title sensationalizes it the out performance a slight bit.
Aww I’m sorry you’re stuck in Windows, bud.
Lol, you might misunderstand my issue with the constant repost. I get it. Reading comprehension is hard!
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Well shucks, bud
expect more and more of these headlines as linux gaming matures in the next few years.
I recently switched to Linux this year (finally), and my experience has been the same.
Not only that, but in some cases, playing a Windows version of a game with Proton seems to work better than the native Linux runtime.
Edit: I use Arch, btw. (lol jk I use EndeavorOS, which is based on Arch)
amen, i love EndeavorOS. i’ve jettisoned all Windows support in my house and anything that needs Windows gets put into an isolated VLAN that can’t talk to anything else. and for the archaic business crap that only has a Windows release, CrossOver is a godsend. same CodeWeavers devs that made Proton and is essentially Wine Premium.
I’m not an expert in networking stuff… If I am using a Windows 11 laptop (owned by my work) on the same network as my personal laptop while working at home, am I putting my privacy/data/etc. at risk? Should I be sequestering the work laptop in some way?
it wouldn’t hurt. i wish my work would just give me a VM to remote into instead of dealing with it on my network, at least in my case all the EDA tools I use are ran on Linux anyway… my last employer put so much
spyware“security” software on their work issued laptops that Suricata on my router/firewall would light up like a Christmas tree. no idea what it was trying to do without breaking out Wireshark and analyzing captures, but that’s when i said enough is enough… can’t be trusted.
Anyone have a good explanation on ‘Frame Time’? This is the first time I’ve heard of this term and after some quick googling I feel like I’m not understanding why it’s worth caring about.
It’s how long it takes the system to render the next frame. High frame times are no good. Equates to lower average fps, and poor player experience. You also want stable frame times. This equates to smooth gameplay and less “stuttering”. Anything under 20ms is considered good. 10ms and less is great. Anything over 50ms will be perceived by the player in a negative way.
I interpret it as the time taken to render a frame. Unlike FPS which is basically a moving average (or rather 1 divided by the average frame time), frame time is a single data point. Collecting frame times allows you to do things like compute the median or, in this case, the lowest 1% of the frame times. That can give you a better idea of how smooth performance appears to the player, and what the worst-case performance is like.
I’m not surprised at the confusion, because they’re using it… not wrong, but very confusingly.
Frame time is literally the time to render a frame. So you’d expect that to be a number of miliseconds per frame and so for lower to be better.
But they’re not looking at frametimes, they’re looking at 1% lows and expressing that in fps, not in frametimes. So yeah, confusing.
For the record, the reson why the term is becoming popular is that there are now widespread visualizations that will give you a line of your frametimes in a graph so you can see if the line is flat or spiky. You’ve probably seen it on the Steam Deck or performance analysis videos or whatever. The idea is that all frametimes being consistent is better than high fps but low 1% or 0.1% low. So stable 60fps can look better than spiky 90fps and so on.
