Mine won’t nor will any of my other 3 Fediverse servers.
I know of a number of Mastodon servers that have already de-federated or limited threads.net, even though it does not yet connect to the Fediverse. Some are even limiting or suspending connections to servers that refuse to de-federate from threads.net and are trying to pressure other servers to do the same.
An Admin has no right to force their personal agendas onto all the people who are on their servers. People are competent enough to make their own decisions and can individually decide to block or limit Threads. I block servers on my server to protect members from hateful people.
I will limit threads.net if their moderation is inadequate, just as I do now for a number of Mastodon servers that don’t do much to keep hatred and offensive content off their servers. This won’t prevent anyone from following someone or being followed by someone, on threads.net. It just means that people on my server need to approve being followed and that posts from threads.net won’t show up in the public timeline.
At this point, I haven’t heard of any Kbin instances planning to de-federate but there’s a ton of yacking about it on Mastodon. I finally muted the “threads” hashtag to get some peace from it.
I disagree that the admin of an instance doesn’t have the right to moderate it how they wish. By joining the server you agree to let that admin control what content you see on your instance. That’s how instances work. It’s still on you to agree/disagree with the admin and how they run the server. That’s why other servers exist and you have the complete right to associate with who you wish, or even run your own instance and run it how you like.
I do not agree with the people wanting to control other servers by trying to force defederating from threads. Independent admins running their own server is what the Fediverse is built upon.
I do not agree with the people wanting to control other servers by trying to force defederating from threads. Independent admins running their own server is what the Fediverse is built upon.
As long as authorized fetch is implemented (and correctly), intermediaries can’t “leak” messages out anyways. If Threads wanted to read the contents of a boost, they would have to ask your server for that, and your server can tell them to screw off.
Does kbin or Lemmy implement authorized fetch? If they don’t they should start working on it. And consider enabling it by default. I know versions of Lemmy >= 0.18 can talk to GTS (which enforces AF) so there is partial support for it. And nobody runs 0.17 because of how inefficient it is, so that won’t be too big of a backwards incompatibility issue. No idea how it works on kbin land here, but it should be implemented ASAP if only so that any future enforcement won’t break backwards compatibility.
Im not going to deny the threat of Extend/Embrace/Extinguish, but everyone defederating now, and threatening to defederate all other instances that dont do so as well, comes across as an incredible hasty and mostly an emotionally driven decision.
an incredible hasty and mostly an emotionally driven decision.
There is probably not another tech company I can name that has proven repeatedly to be as untrustworthy with the care they take for user privacy and negative impacts of their platform than Meta. I’d be less up in arms about federating with Twitter, and I’d be none too happy about that.
Let’s not ignore that this isn’t just any old company, this is the king of corporate bad actors. There is ample evidence that we should view them with suspicion, and no evidence whatsoever that we should not.
I get that. I’m all for viewing then with suspicion. Rightly and justifiably so. I don’t have Facebook or Instagram except for contained osint work. I value privacy and understand it’s importance.
But I’m personally not in favour of wildly quarantining every instance that doesn’t fully block them before I have had more time to understand the risks and options here. And I think a lot of people here don’t do. Not really. In that regard its just classic social media with people stoking each others fears and feasting on it.
And I guess a lot of people are here, fresh from reddits corporate ego trip only to immediately feel the worry of their next digital home inevitably meeting the same fate. I think that fresh trauma is directing a lot of the current discourse here. And I think it would be wise to revisit the subject again when we’ve settled and understand our new surroundings more.
tl;dr: don’t trust facebook, but also don’t burn half the street down because they bought a mansion down the lane.
I’m fine with waiting (since we have the luxury of doing so currently) while we wait to see what all the details actually are. But I’m always going to pipe up in support of the fedipact until and unless I receive more information than I have now, and that information gives me a good reason to change my mind.
Folks are thinking of this far too punitively. I say without snarkiness that any instance that wants to federate with Meta should do so, and that it’s OK if that results in a degree of fragmentation. I believe there will always be enough critical mass of folks who want nothing to do with that to maintain a reasonable community without federating with Meta or instances that do so, and it’s really clear that Meta will bring enough users to maintain the other piece full of instances that do choose to federate with them.
The whole point of federation is to allow for instance admins to choose who they will federate with. They don’t all have to make the same decision. And none of them have a right to demand federation from others. That’s just how it is.
Whatever decision is made doesn’t have to be permanent, and for many instances it likely won’t be.
And I guess a lot of people are here, fresh from reddits corporate ego trip only to immediately feel the worry of their next digital home inevitably meeting the same fate. I think that fresh trauma is directing a lot of the current discourse here.
You are exactly right, but I would again remind you that it’s not a baseless worry. They 100% intend monetizing the fediverse. The only question is how much they will destroy in their rush to do so.
Come on, one thread is all about “if we do nothing now in two years Threads will have swallowed the Internet”, and here it’s like “if we do something now we’re all drama queens”.
Personally I think it’s all very simple. Meta has an agenda, which is monetizing data through all means available.
This is not up to debate. It’s a corporation, it has no morals and no other goal other than generating profit by selling users data to advertisers.
I’m saying this as a statement of facts.
The purpose of the fediverse so far is in complete contrast with that, so I think it’s perfectly reasonable to assume that Meta’s ultimate goal will be to alter the fediverse to suit their own goal.
Therefore, telling them to go fuck themselves while we still can seems like a very reasonable thing to do.
Everyone is free and welcome to make thir own servers, and so is Meta.
However, admins are also free to defederate from the servers they deem dangerous or inappropriate for any reason, and fuck, Meta has shown thousands of times that they’re not to be trusted.
Mine won’t nor will any of my other 3 Fediverse servers.
I know of a number of Mastodon servers that have already de-federated or limited threads.net, even though it does not yet connect to the Fediverse. Some are even limiting or suspending connections to servers that refuse to de-federate from threads.net and are trying to pressure other servers to do the same.
An Admin has no right to force their personal agendas onto all the people who are on their servers. People are competent enough to make their own decisions and can individually decide to block or limit Threads. I block servers on my server to protect members from hateful people.
I will limit threads.net if their moderation is inadequate, just as I do now for a number of Mastodon servers that don’t do much to keep hatred and offensive content off their servers. This won’t prevent anyone from following someone or being followed by someone, on threads.net. It just means that people on my server need to approve being followed and that posts from threads.net won’t show up in the public timeline.
At this point, I haven’t heard of any Kbin instances planning to de-federate but there’s a ton of yacking about it on Mastodon. I finally muted the “threads” hashtag to get some peace from it.
I disagree that the admin of an instance doesn’t have the right to moderate it how they wish. By joining the server you agree to let that admin control what content you see on your instance. That’s how instances work. It’s still on you to agree/disagree with the admin and how they run the server. That’s why other servers exist and you have the complete right to associate with who you wish, or even run your own instance and run it how you like.
I do not agree with the people wanting to control other servers by trying to force defederating from threads. Independent admins running their own server is what the Fediverse is built upon.
This.
The nature of the Fediverse is that if you don’t agree with your admin’s running of things, you can pick a new admin. Or become one yourself.
The admin has every right to decide what their website interacts with.
As long as authorized fetch is implemented (and correctly), intermediaries can’t “leak” messages out anyways. If Threads wanted to read the contents of a boost, they would have to ask your server for that, and your server can tell them to screw off.
Does kbin or Lemmy implement authorized fetch? If they don’t they should start working on it. And consider enabling it by default. I know versions of Lemmy >= 0.18 can talk to GTS (which enforces AF) so there is partial support for it. And nobody runs 0.17 because of how inefficient it is, so that won’t be too big of a backwards incompatibility issue. No idea how it works on kbin land here, but it should be implemented ASAP if only so that any future enforcement won’t break backwards compatibility.
Im not going to deny the threat of Extend/Embrace/Extinguish, but everyone defederating now, and threatening to defederate all other instances that dont do so as well, comes across as an incredible hasty and mostly an emotionally driven decision.
There is probably not another tech company I can name that has proven repeatedly to be as untrustworthy with the care they take for user privacy and negative impacts of their platform than Meta. I’d be less up in arms about federating with Twitter, and I’d be none too happy about that.
Let’s not ignore that this isn’t just any old company, this is the king of corporate bad actors. There is ample evidence that we should view them with suspicion, and no evidence whatsoever that we should not.
I get that. I’m all for viewing then with suspicion. Rightly and justifiably so. I don’t have Facebook or Instagram except for contained osint work. I value privacy and understand it’s importance.
But I’m personally not in favour of wildly quarantining every instance that doesn’t fully block them before I have had more time to understand the risks and options here. And I think a lot of people here don’t do. Not really. In that regard its just classic social media with people stoking each others fears and feasting on it.
And I guess a lot of people are here, fresh from reddits corporate ego trip only to immediately feel the worry of their next digital home inevitably meeting the same fate. I think that fresh trauma is directing a lot of the current discourse here. And I think it would be wise to revisit the subject again when we’ve settled and understand our new surroundings more.
tl;dr: don’t trust facebook, but also don’t burn half the street down because they bought a mansion down the lane.
I’m fine with waiting (since we have the luxury of doing so currently) while we wait to see what all the details actually are. But I’m always going to pipe up in support of the fedipact until and unless I receive more information than I have now, and that information gives me a good reason to change my mind.
Folks are thinking of this far too punitively. I say without snarkiness that any instance that wants to federate with Meta should do so, and that it’s OK if that results in a degree of fragmentation. I believe there will always be enough critical mass of folks who want nothing to do with that to maintain a reasonable community without federating with Meta or instances that do so, and it’s really clear that Meta will bring enough users to maintain the other piece full of instances that do choose to federate with them.
The whole point of federation is to allow for instance admins to choose who they will federate with. They don’t all have to make the same decision. And none of them have a right to demand federation from others. That’s just how it is.
Whatever decision is made doesn’t have to be permanent, and for many instances it likely won’t be.
You are exactly right, but I would again remind you that it’s not a baseless worry. They 100% intend monetizing the fediverse. The only question is how much they will destroy in their rush to do so.
Come on, one thread is all about “if we do nothing now in two years Threads will have swallowed the Internet”, and here it’s like “if we do something now we’re all drama queens”.
Personally I think it’s all very simple. Meta has an agenda, which is monetizing data through all means available.
This is not up to debate. It’s a corporation, it has no morals and no other goal other than generating profit by selling users data to advertisers.
I’m saying this as a statement of facts.
The purpose of the fediverse so far is in complete contrast with that, so I think it’s perfectly reasonable to assume that Meta’s ultimate goal will be to alter the fediverse to suit their own goal.
Therefore, telling them to go fuck themselves while we still can seems like a very reasonable thing to do.
Everyone is free and welcome to make thir own servers, and so is Meta.
However, admins are also free to defederate from the servers they deem dangerous or inappropriate for any reason, and fuck, Meta has shown thousands of times that they’re not to be trusted.
It’s not the quality of the moderation which is in question but the embrace-extend-extinguish equation.