Except it’s not really a currency is it? Nobody actually uses this stuff for buying goods and services, they treat it as a stock. Usually short-term trading that’s essentially just gambling.
Normal currency also doesn’t use more than 2% of the power generation of a massive country.
In addition to using it as a currency, sure. But as I asked rigatti, is that a problem? At worst one might perhaps argue that the name “cryptocurrency” is misleading, but I’ve never cared much about semantics like that.
Alright, so let’s call them cryptotokens instead. I’ve always preferred that myself, it’s a much more general description of what they do. It doesn’t change what they are but if that term makes you happier we can go with that.
It renders it useless outside of as a bit of gambling on the side.
Hardly, there are lots of things you can do with these things. A ledger is more than just for tracking money, it’s a database. You really can’t think of useful things that could be done with a completely decentralized and permissionless database?
Bitcoin, no, because it’s a hopelessly out of date blockchain that actively resists having new capabilities added to it. Ethereum, on the other hand, is designed that way from the ground up. Many of the other smaller but more modern blockchains are also like that.
There are people who ride the bike as a means of transport. Then there are people who build their entire identity around riding a bike. That doesn’t mean one or the other rides it wrong.
A token of value can have multiple different usecases at the same time.
Yes, the price fluctuations created by speculation make it hard to use for payment. How do you agree on a fair price when you don’t know what the “money” will be worth in a few weeks.
The deflationary effect caused by hoarding currency, as is done with bitcoin, would bring about a Great Depression scenario in a real economy.
It varies, there are a bunch of different types of stabletokens. The two main approaches I’m aware of are:
Tokens that are issued and backed by a trusted third party. Tether, for example, issues one USDT token for every USD that is deposited with Tether Inc. and you can redeem USDTs for USD again any time. I’m not particularly fond of this approach, but it’s simple and popular and as long as you’re not holding USDT long-term I don’t see a big problem with it as a day-to-day currency. Just make sure the issuing company is audited and you’re prepared for the possibility that they could turn out to be lying.
Tokens that are issued by on-chain smart contracts, backed by other digital assets. DAI and Liquity are examples of these. They are more complicated but IMO the better choice because you don’t have to trust anyone - you can see the token’s backing right on the blockchain itself and know whether it’s actually worth what the stabletoken needs for support.
One of the nice things about the on-chain smart contract stabletokens is that they can be backed by less-stable tokens, such as Ether itself, so you can get the best of both worlds out of them.
Ok, so a stablecoin means, that the holder gives an unsecured, zero-interest loan to a company with unknown credit worthiness. It’s “stable” because a $1 debt stays a 1$ debt. That’s a nice spin on zero interest. It’s not what I’d call a currency. Or sane, reasonable, sensible, …
I note that tether is known for not allowing audits. Are you for real?
The other option is that the loan is collateralized in crypto. And you can’t actually redeem the stablecoin for money, you can only get crypto that trades for $1, allegedly. On the liquity site I wasn’t able to see how the price is determined. I did see that there is a redemption fee of variable, unknown size. I’m not quite clear how that is supposed to be sane.
Yes, cryptocurrencies, aka “currencies”, are used for buying goods and services.
Energy consumption is a great point if you ignore the material resource acquisition cost, worker cost, production cost, sundry cost, hardware cost, conventional debit and credit fees, service personnel cost, data centers, servers, and telecommunication network costs of conventional currency infrastructure.
Yeah, if we ignore all of that, then the resource consumption of a single energy intensive cryptocurrency seems high.
Yes, cryptocurrencies, aka “currencies”, are used for buying goods and services.
No no no. Cryptocurrencies aren’t used for buying goods and services outside of extremely fringe scenarios.
People trade them like they do stocks. You can pretend that’s not the case all you want, but you know it to be true.
I can’t go to Aldi and pay for my shopping with bitcoin or whatever shitcoin you hold. I can’t pay my bills with it. I can’t go get a haircut with it.
All I can do is treat it like a stock.
Energy consumption is a great point if you ignore the material resource acquisition cost, worker cost, production cost, sundry cost, hardware cost, conventional debit and credit fees, service personnel cost, data centers, servers, and telecommunication network costs of conventional currency infrastructure
I’m not ignoring any of that. Crypto still uses far more, and to top it all off, can’t really be used as a currency.
You cryptobros have been saying crypto will replace real currency any day now for years. It’s not happening. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Yes, you can buy groceries or a haircut with cryptocurrency.
Because most of them are less than a decade old, it isn’t as widespread as many more established currencies, but you can absolutely buy groceries, buy a haircut, eat at restaurants, buy a house, buy a car, pay utility bills, obviously pay for various forms of entertainment like twitch, hardware at newegg, there’s tons of stores that you can use cryptocurrency.
You can also buy gift cards with cryptocurrency that you can use for literally anything.
It’s fine if you don’t like it, but people are using it as a currency to purchase any type of material good you would purchase with conventional currency.
You keep throwing your tantrum about how cryptocurrency is going nowhere while it grows by 100 million per year and many of the world’s governments are developing and purchasing cryptocurrencies.
They’re probably developing those cryptocurrencies for fun, right?
It’s probably like that dumb digital debit and credit card system they came up within the '70s.
Total bullshit, credit and debit cards.
Good thing that credit rating system never caught on, huh?
Where? Where do you see that? I’ve literally never been to a grocery store or hairdresser that accepts ANYTHING other than cash or card (maaybe checks)
Hahaha you’re not even providing examples! You’re just saying “uhhh oh yeah mate. Hundreds. Hundreds of them. I’m not going to mention any, but yeah, hundreds. You can’t get moved for them.”
Why would I use the wrong currency for a country? That makes no sense. Yet another crappy strawman.
No I can’t. I go to a supermarket and I can pay with my local currency and that’s it.
I go to local restaurants and I can pay with my local currency and that’s it.
I go to my barbers and I can pay with my local currency and that’s it.
I go to a pub and I can pay with my local currency and that’s it.
I pay my energy bills and I can pay with my local currency and that’s it.
I pay my ISP bills and I can pay with my local currency and that’s it.
I go to a car wash and I can pay with my local currency and that’s it.
I pay taxes and I can pay with my local currency and that’s it.
Etc.
Places don’t accept crypto. Crypto isn’t used as a currency for the vast vast vast majority of people who hold crypto, nevermind society as a whole.
Look, I get you’re a massive cryptobro, crypto is your life, you have a little tramp stamp of the bitcoin logo on your lower back, you speak to people about how any day now the real currencies are gonna die and crypto will take over, trust me bro™. But the real world is different to the one that appears to exist in your head.
Look at you, confident that digital currency is fundamentally different than…digital currency.
Look at you, being a smarmy cunt and putting words in my mouth I’ve never said.
The issue with crypto as a currency isn’t that it’s digital, it’s that it’s literally not a currency. That’s what makes them different.
So yeah, using a bank card and paying with real money is very different to trying to use a digital “currency” and not be able to live because nowhere will touch it.
Never heard of whole foods. You shouldn’t assume people are from wherever you’re from. I’m guessing it’s a food shop?
But congratulations, you’ve named one company 🎉👏
You’ll note that I’ve been saying there’s practically nowhere that accepts crypto, not literally nowhere on planet earth. So well done on your strawman, but it doesn’t contradict what I’ve said at all.
People use crypto as a stock. Not a currency.
Widely accepted
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I’ll stick to using real money. If I called up my mortgage provider and said “oh I’m not going to be paying in £ anymore, but I can give you Monero!” I’d be evicted pretty damn quick. As would you if you paid any bills.
Except it’s not really a currency is it? Nobody actually uses this stuff for buying goods and services, they treat it as a stock. Usually short-term trading that’s essentially just gambling.
Normal currency also doesn’t use more than 2% of the power generation of a massive country.
People speculate on the price of “normal currency” too.
I’m well aware.
But far, far, far, far more people use it as currency. Exchanging it for goods and services is clearly the main use for it.
Crypto is used like a stock.
In addition to using it as a currency, sure. But as I asked rigatti, is that a problem? At worst one might perhaps argue that the name “cryptocurrency” is misleading, but I’ve never cared much about semantics like that.
You’re saying “in addition to using it as a currency” as if that’s actually what people do with crypto. They don’t.
And yeah, it is a problem. It renders it useless outside of as a bit of gambling on the side.
Alright, so let’s call them cryptotokens instead. I’ve always preferred that myself, it’s a much more general description of what they do. It doesn’t change what they are but if that term makes you happier we can go with that.
Hardly, there are lots of things you can do with these things. A ledger is more than just for tracking money, it’s a database. You really can’t think of useful things that could be done with a completely decentralized and permissionless database?
People don’t use bitcoin or other cryptocoins as a general purpose database. They use it as they’d use a stock.
Bitcoin, no, because it’s a hopelessly out of date blockchain that actively resists having new capabilities added to it. Ethereum, on the other hand, is designed that way from the ground up. Many of the other smaller but more modern blockchains are also like that.
And yet they’re still used like a stock and you can’t really use them as a currency.
There are people who ride the bike as a means of transport. Then there are people who build their entire identity around riding a bike. That doesn’t mean one or the other rides it wrong.
A token of value can have multiple different usecases at the same time.
Bikes are used as a mode of transport. That’s what everybody uses them for.
Crypto isn’t really used as a currency. It is used like a stock. That’s what everybody uses them for, if we’re being honest.
But faaaarr fewer than those who use it for transactions. In the crypto world it’s reversed.
Is that a problem?
Yes, the price fluctuations created by speculation make it hard to use for payment. How do you agree on a fair price when you don’t know what the “money” will be worth in a few weeks.
The deflationary effect caused by hoarding currency, as is done with bitcoin, would bring about a Great Depression scenario in a real economy.
If you need the token’s price to be stable then there are stabletokens specifically designed for that.
And how do they manage that?
It varies, there are a bunch of different types of stabletokens. The two main approaches I’m aware of are:
Tokens that are issued and backed by a trusted third party. Tether, for example, issues one USDT token for every USD that is deposited with Tether Inc. and you can redeem USDTs for USD again any time. I’m not particularly fond of this approach, but it’s simple and popular and as long as you’re not holding USDT long-term I don’t see a big problem with it as a day-to-day currency. Just make sure the issuing company is audited and you’re prepared for the possibility that they could turn out to be lying.
Tokens that are issued by on-chain smart contracts, backed by other digital assets. DAI and Liquity are examples of these. They are more complicated but IMO the better choice because you don’t have to trust anyone - you can see the token’s backing right on the blockchain itself and know whether it’s actually worth what the stabletoken needs for support.
One of the nice things about the on-chain smart contract stabletokens is that they can be backed by less-stable tokens, such as Ether itself, so you can get the best of both worlds out of them.
Ok, so a stablecoin means, that the holder gives an unsecured, zero-interest loan to a company with unknown credit worthiness. It’s “stable” because a $1 debt stays a 1$ debt. That’s a nice spin on zero interest. It’s not what I’d call a currency. Or sane, reasonable, sensible, …
I note that tether is known for not allowing audits. Are you for real?
The other option is that the loan is collateralized in crypto. And you can’t actually redeem the stablecoin for money, you can only get crypto that trades for $1, allegedly. On the liquity site I wasn’t able to see how the price is determined. I did see that there is a redemption fee of variable, unknown size. I’m not quite clear how that is supposed to be sane.
Except Montero
Yes, cryptocurrencies, aka “currencies”, are used for buying goods and services.
Energy consumption is a great point if you ignore the material resource acquisition cost, worker cost, production cost, sundry cost, hardware cost, conventional debit and credit fees, service personnel cost, data centers, servers, and telecommunication network costs of conventional currency infrastructure.
Yeah, if we ignore all of that, then the resource consumption of a single energy intensive cryptocurrency seems high.
No no no. Cryptocurrencies aren’t used for buying goods and services outside of extremely fringe scenarios.
People trade them like they do stocks. You can pretend that’s not the case all you want, but you know it to be true.
I can’t go to Aldi and pay for my shopping with bitcoin or whatever shitcoin you hold. I can’t pay my bills with it. I can’t go get a haircut with it.
All I can do is treat it like a stock.
I’m not ignoring any of that. Crypto still uses far more, and to top it all off, can’t really be used as a currency.
You cryptobros have been saying crypto will replace real currency any day now for years. It’s not happening. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Yes, you can buy groceries or a haircut with cryptocurrency.
Because most of them are less than a decade old, it isn’t as widespread as many more established currencies, but you can absolutely buy groceries, buy a haircut, eat at restaurants, buy a house, buy a car, pay utility bills, obviously pay for various forms of entertainment like twitch, hardware at newegg, there’s tons of stores that you can use cryptocurrency.
You can also buy gift cards with cryptocurrency that you can use for literally anything.
It’s fine if you don’t like it, but people are using it as a currency to purchase any type of material good you would purchase with conventional currency.
You keep throwing your tantrum about how cryptocurrency is going nowhere while it grows by 100 million per year and many of the world’s governments are developing and purchasing cryptocurrencies.
They’re probably developing those cryptocurrencies for fun, right?
It’s probably like that dumb digital debit and credit card system they came up within the '70s.
Total bullshit, credit and debit cards.
Good thing that credit rating system never caught on, huh?
Where? Where do you see that? I’ve literally never been to a grocery store or hairdresser that accepts ANYTHING other than cash or card (maaybe checks)
Haha, checks! Yeah, we live in different areas.
Whole Foods(this little supermarket chain) accepts crypto, coffee shops, bars, hair stylists, there’s a bunch of places.
Might want to open those peepers.
Ok, I’ll pick a few random cities, and you show me a handful of supermarkets, cafes, bars, and barbers that all apparently happily accept crypto.
San Antonio, US
Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK
Hamilton, NZ
Deventer, Netherlands
You obviously won’t have an issue, because it’s so common for crypto to be used as a proper currency
Obviously not.
San Antonio:
Whole foods
Chevron
Tiger mart
Food Mart
Ecobox
Tax services
Pizza places, repair companies, there are literally hundreds.
Do you have something specific in mind?
Newscastle upon Tyne:
5wire
Academy for distance learning
Tech companies
Travel companies
Clothing companies
Watch companies
Do you want something specific?
NZ and the Netherlands - also hundreds.
Why don’t you go try using your US currency in New Zealand, the Netherlands and the UK, or try using NZD in Vanuatu?
That’ll work out great for you.
It’s right in line with you continually proving yourself wrong.
Hahaha you’re not even providing examples! You’re just saying “uhhh oh yeah mate. Hundreds. Hundreds of them. I’m not going to mention any, but yeah, hundreds. You can’t get moved for them.”
Why would I use the wrong currency for a country? That makes no sense. Yet another crappy strawman.
Cool. I’ll explain this to the person at the till next time I’m buying some milk, then I’m sure they’ll accept my dickbutt coin.
People are developing crypto as a gamble/investment. Not as a real currency.
And lol at you saying crypto is like debit/credit cards. It isn’t.
They probably won’t take such a disused currency.
But you can use more popular crypto to buy groceries, yes.
Look at you, confident that digital currency is fundamentally different than…digital currency.
No I can’t. I go to a supermarket and I can pay with my local currency and that’s it.
I go to local restaurants and I can pay with my local currency and that’s it.
I go to my barbers and I can pay with my local currency and that’s it.
I go to a pub and I can pay with my local currency and that’s it.
I pay my energy bills and I can pay with my local currency and that’s it.
I pay my ISP bills and I can pay with my local currency and that’s it.
I go to a car wash and I can pay with my local currency and that’s it.
I pay taxes and I can pay with my local currency and that’s it.
Etc.
Places don’t accept crypto. Crypto isn’t used as a currency for the vast vast vast majority of people who hold crypto, nevermind society as a whole.
Look, I get you’re a massive cryptobro, crypto is your life, you have a little tramp stamp of the bitcoin logo on your lower back, you speak to people about how any day now the real currencies are gonna die and crypto will take over, trust me bro™. But the real world is different to the one that appears to exist in your head.
Look at you, being a smarmy cunt and putting words in my mouth I’ve never said.
The issue with crypto as a currency isn’t that it’s digital, it’s that it’s literally not a currency. That’s what makes them different.
So yeah, using a bank card and paying with real money is very different to trying to use a digital “currency” and not be able to live because nowhere will touch it.
You are confidently incorrect.
Being confidently incorrect still leaves you incorrect.
Whole Foods, this little chain you might not have heard about, accepts crypto.
You can choose not to use cryptocurrencies, but that doesn’t mean cryptocurrencies aren’t widely accepted.
Cryptocurrency is accepted in many places.
I’m being factual, you’re throwing a tantrum because you’re wrong.
Never heard of whole foods. You shouldn’t assume people are from wherever you’re from. I’m guessing it’s a food shop?
But congratulations, you’ve named one company 🎉👏
You’ll note that I’ve been saying there’s practically nowhere that accepts crypto, not literally nowhere on planet earth. So well done on your strawman, but it doesn’t contradict what I’ve said at all.
People use crypto as a stock. Not a currency.
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HAHA HAHAHAHAHA
hahaha
ha
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I’ll stick to using real money. If I called up my mortgage provider and said “oh I’m not going to be paying in £ anymore, but I can give you Monero!” I’d be evicted pretty damn quick. As would you if you paid any bills.