Me watching WWDC: “Android already does that.”
Me watching Google I/O “iOS already does that.”
In ten years all phones will be crabs
I knew there was a link between cell phones and cancer!!
if only i could be as successful as mr. krabs…
I’m experiencing déjà vu…
EDIT: Found this thread in the wild, then stumbled upon it. That’s why.
Windows phone 10 had most of these things in 2015
It had everything except apps.
Ouch
… and the users
Qnx had a lot of features before windows phone in 2013.
I miss Windows phone, still the most intuitive phone UI I’ve ever seen.
Microsoft: “I think we really nailed this phone UI. We should make this the desktop computer experience too.”
They often steal features from each other. Technological innovation has slowed down a lot because of monopolies
I would argue that it’s the nature of having a mature and complex product. Adding new stuff is hard because you have a lot of legacy code / UX that you have to accommodate for. You need to move slower because it’s easier to break stuff in a more mature product.
I’d also argue that Apple and Google’s research teams are generally hearing the similar stuff out of their end users, so it’s to be expected that both companies are going to prioritize similar functionality.
That was my experience when I’ve worked on massive products. The complexity of the product impacts development speed, and shared understandings of user desires results in similar feature sets between competitors.
Yes. Android already does all these things. But I think the things I’m excited most about are not on this list at all.
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A private local LLM. With the on-device context of my notes, messages, calendar, etc, I’m rather excited to have a more personal LLM than ChatGPT.
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Personal messaging via satellite. I love that I can stay in touch with people outside of a cell network.
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Did I understand correctly that this is only going to be in the iPhone 15 pro? Because that’s a lot more expensive than a pixel, more than I’d ever spend on a phone tbh.
The satellite im fairly sure is only pro
Satellite is on 14+
We went hiking and tried calling emergency services but my friend’s 14 pro couldn’t get any signal for some reason. Idk what was wrong, me and my friend with pixels had no issues though.
Where do you live?
This was in the LA mountains. Angeles national park
I don’t know. Pixels don’t support call vis satellite though
also excited for hands free unlock of smart door locks. not sure if android/google home does that.
I’d add to that list. If Siri is 3/4 as capable as shown in the presentation, that’s sick. Android does not have that.
Satellite messaging is already available in Android 15 beta, and the LLM in the device will only be for iPhone 15 Pro and above, so most iPhone users will not be able to use it.
But there’s literally zero phones which can use it
A private local LLM
Running on a phone? No way, not without being absolutely horrible, slow or making your phone churn through your battery anyway.
Good LLMs are olready slow on a GTX 1080, which is already miles faster than any phone out there
I hear you, but also I would be shocked if Apple were to roll this out and it be an absolutely terrible experience. Like their MO is “luxury” products with “premium” experiences, it would not be fitting of the brand to have a piece of crap experience on their flagship announcement.
I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.
You might wanna check with siri on that. Apple regularly failed at that even under the leadership of Jobs. And Tim Cook is no Steve Jobs. It’s already looking like it’s going to be just standard remote chat GPT. Hallucinations and all.
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Apple Maps was bad, yes. But they had their hand forced. Google started charging for their API (enough to cripple their app), and they had very little time to create one of their own.
That’s not happening here. No one is forcing their hand. If they didn’t release an updated Siri this year, nothing would happen.
But apple maps is much better now lederp.jpeg.
It’s not a LLM, it’s a much smaller model (~3B) which is closer to what Microsoft labels as a SLM (Small Language Models, e.g. MS Phi-3 Mini).
https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/introducing-apple-foundation-models
Microsoft’s penchant for making up names for thing that already have names is neither here nor there. It is an LLM, in fact its already twice as large as chatGPT2 (1.5B params).
I do think it’s a useful distinction considering open models can be more than 100B+ nowdays and GPT4 is rumored to be 1.7T params. Plus this class of models are far more likely to be on-device.
You would be surprised. If you haven’t tried to run a LLM on Apple silicon, it’s pretty snappy but like all others, RAM can be a significantly limiting factor unless the model is trimmed down to do very specific things to reduce the size.
I think It’s running on their “Private cloud compute” platform, not locally (I’m not sure though)
some things are run locally.
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I’m an android user but honestly bored of hearing this shit every single year. “Android already does that” yeah, we know. It’s like having a friend that is constantly trying to one-up you, or trying to steal attention away from you at your own birthday party.
As long as you own the fact that you paid more money for an inferior product because you think it will make you look cool.
I use Apple because it’s easier to manage a grandma and a daughter. Android is great if you’re technologically adept and can install a custom ROM, but I don’t want that freedom for my “users”. Grandma used to have an Android phone for years. I’d have to clean that thing out every few months because she would just click on shit. I switched her to iPhone and now when I check, there’s far less nonsense going on. It’s just easier to be the family admin this way. There are numerous other things that Android can also do, better, and for free, but at the cost of one’s time. It’s a trade off I’m willing to make. I reject the notion Apple is outright inferior; by which criteria? It’s also not about looking cool. Everyone has smartphones and they’re not special like they may have been in the 2000s. They’re the most commodified computer people use around the world. There’s no phone that makes you cool regardless of brand. It’s a fucking phone.
Are you talking about apple copying the features but being a bit late?
Both Android and iOS copy from eachother
Honestly who gives a shit, we are talking about phone OSes. I dont have a strong enough opinion about any of this to care which of them does what first. Use what you like and move on mentally
Android can do satellite messaging? Android phone makers are shipping on device LLMs?
I’m not an Apple fanboy nor do I use an iPhone currently but this headline is ridiculous.
Satellite messaging is already available in Android 15 beta, and the LLM in the device will only be for iPhone 15 Pro and above, so most iPhone users will not be able to use it.
Satellite messaging is already available in Android 15 beta
Perhaps in software, but I don’t think there is a current phone that has the hardware to take advantage. For now, this is essentially an Apple only feature. It’s a pretty good bet we are going to see some flagships released with it in the next year though.
I know that Pixel 7’s and above support it. There are Reddit posts showing they have the feature already. Satellite messaging is just using standard 4G/LTE from Starlink. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is only an OS update away for most newer phones.
That’s pretty cool, I assumed they needed additional hardware. Thanks.
(For iPhone 14 and iPhone 15 series only)
And? How many android devices can you name that actually support satellite messaging today? When the feature DOES come on the android side, I imagine it is going to probably be flagship devices as well. Seems to be a silly thing to call Apple out for.
But is Android doing the on device LLM already? Because it sounds like they aren’t…
https://www.androidauthority.com/how-to-get-gemini-nano-on-pixel-8-8a-3450466/
Pixel 8 pro already does. I’m not sure, but I think Samsung has something too.
I think Pixel 8 and 8a do too, or at least are capable, since they’re the same chip. I’d check, but I put GrapheneOS on my phone so I don’t have all of the Google stuff.
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Android phone makers are shipping on device LLMs?
Do people actually want these?
Yes, in fact that is the only kind of ai i would ever use and entrust my data to. Not the apple one, but an open source model that is running only on my device and answering only to me; using the data I provide only for my interests? That one I would use.
I bet these LLM models wont be 100% locally hosted. I imagine some form of data will be piped back to a cloud server
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“secure” meaning “apple sees all your data”
Isn’t Apple one of these companies that actually does not sell user’s data?
So? I don’t want apple themselves knowing my data either.
Is that why there are so many celebrity iCloud leaks floating around the internet?
It wasn’t a software issue, but a human issue. People got scammed and gave their logins away.
This system is built so that nobody can access it and they’ve went to extreme lengths to make it so. It’s also available for auditing, it hardware and software.
LMFAO
“It’s a very thoughtful design. Indeed, if you gave an excellent team a huge pile of money and told them to build the best “private” cloud in the world, it would probably look like this.”
- Matthew D Green, cryptography teacher at Josh Hopkins
You can go argue with him if you disagree.
LLM is AI correct? If my phone is going to do AI at all, I prefer it be done on device for sure. For privacy reasons if nothing else. But it’s not anything I’ve really looked into. I have the S24 and the only AI feature I use is the Circle to search… which I don’t consider to be AI.
LLM is a form of AI, specifically the text AIs like ChatGPT that have suddenly made “AI” a dinner table term. AI in some form or another is almost definitely being used in your device - even for things like filling in gaps in low-quality voice calls, and probably has been for a while. But the problem is that unlike those “old” AIs, LLMs require some significant power to run, so running them on phones will probably require meaningful trade-offs. But the increased security is also a meaningful benefit.
They add a kinda nifty “copy subject” option that is supposedly local AI stuff to the samsung gallery, fun to mess with
“Android phone makers are shipping on device LLMs?”
…yes?
As much as I hate apple and google, I want a future where all these can be done locally without massive servers and sending all data to cloud . Apple clearly have a edge over google in that regards.
Ah, you mean like the sync that Palm OS used to have? Yup, that was neat, and I’m still waiting for Android to pick up some of the neat features from back then.
I miss palm OS. I think it had some undeniable jank but it also had great features and a bit of “charm”. I’m pretty sure I still remember most of the Graffiti alphabet!
I totally bought a Palm off eBay few months ago. It’s been fun to use Palm OS 5 again. I got a model that actually has WiFi, which was also interesting to set up a AP that was compatible with it.
One I got had a dead battery, ordered a new one, it was so much nicer to open the old tech and replace the battery. Just screw and little solder. No glue and impossible small stuff to work with.
It definitely comes at a cost though. The private local models will be inherently dumber because of less compute and smaller data sets.
And, unfortunately, this is a hard thing to communicate to the public. All they know is that Assistant responded to a request better than Siri.
My last brand new Pixel phone had debug strings in the user interface and the UI was not responsive. It’s the daily annoyances and details that made me get an iPhone. Comparisons have been stupid since the beginning of smartphones.
Can you elaborate on these problems?
I didn’t realise android did free SMS over satellite when there is no cellular connection
Looks like it’s been available on some android devices for at least a month. I don’t know about free though, I think it depends on your carrier. I know T-Mobile has been talking about supporting it using Starlink satellites.
https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/1ct1no1/satellite_messaging_option_appeared_on_my_pixel_7/ https://www.t-mobile.com/news/un-carrier/first-spacex-satellites-launch-for-breakthrough-direct-to-cell-service-with-t-mobile
But with the iPhone it’s free, and not carrier dependent and works outside of the United States for those of us in the rest of the world….
For me the importance is that it’s free - I wouldn’t even pay $5 a month for a service that I’d use in very unlikely situations probably once or twice a year.
Isn’t the satellite thing just free temporarily?
They said it’s free for 2 years with any new purchase of iPhone since iPhone 14; and now they’ve extended it for 1 more year. No one has had to pay for any of it yet - and it’s unknown if/when/how it’ll be a paid service
Good for Android, now if they’d only implement all of the Apple-only features that create the lock-in appeal then maybe they’ll get somewhere. When my Pixel Buds flow seamlessly from device to device to the third and fourth device then maybe we’ll talk
I have the Pixel Buds Pro and they kinda do that, but yeah not very well. I have them paired to my phone and my laptop, and sometimes randomly they’ll silently disconnect from my laptop and permanently pause whatever I was watching if my phone plays a notification. I can’t fix it until I disconnect from and reconnect to my laptop multiple times.
One time I was watching a video on my laptop and they randomly connected to my desktop! I hadn’t used them on my desktop in at least a year, until then!
All in all, they can flow seamlessly, but it’s 60/40 on if it works properly
At least the noise cancelling and passthrough are fun to mess with
How many devices do you switch between? For me, it’s phone, tablet, two laptops and my watch. I think that the Pixel Buds can switch between two without needing a re-pair. Meanwhile, I can stream my Apple TV audio to my AirPods as they’re also an audio source! Even if Google released basic support for this today, they still wouldn’t be able to fully catch up because they have no truly realized desktop/laptop OS so I’d live in a mixed ecosystem.
I have them paired to a few things, but only ever use them on my phone and laptop. That’s why I was so confused when it connected to my desktop, since it was last paired and actually used a long time ago.
I guess it’s a complicated issue for me, since they’re paired with more than 2 things but only ever connected to 2 things
Presumably need Pixel everything for that but even then, as an android user I would rather be locked into an Apple eco than google.
My SO has current gen Pixel devices all around and it’s yet to materialize. To my mind, Google could sync Bluetooth pairing info across all Android devices if they put their minds to it. But even if they did, they would need to work with Microsoft and other vendors to get the kind of ambiguity that would compete with Apple’s product line. As it stands, if you buy the Apple product you get the best hardware and the software compliment is five years ahead than the competition. Google and Microsoft need to leapfrog
i still like my android but i do wish they would get back to prioritising widgets again, like apple has done - and get developers to do it as well.
i also like apple watch over my samsung watch. i think the apple watch is top in it’s class - that combined with apple fitness+.
if apple could set defaults, use actual browsers (like android), and have an open in menu like android, i’d switch. i don’t think i could ever get used to apple’s notifications though. android is still superior there.
I’ve switch between iOS and Android, but good news on one of those you can set your default browser now on iOS.
not the same, though; browsers are still webkit.
also you can’t set phone or messaging or other defaults. in android, i can not have a default and get a pop up every time (or use linksheet) to ask how i want to open something
That’s a fair a good point!
I know this is an old feature, but do we have the NFC money transfer thingy?
I mean the one where you touch other phone with your phone and transfer money.
If we do I am unaware of it, I use AOSP.
I think Google Pay used to have something similar, until Google axed the whole thing in favor of Google Wallet
… And that is why competition and “stealing features” is always good, being Apple’s or Google’s competition.
Nope. Apple only.
I’m switching to iPhone because Google has let Android languish for years now. Samsung does more for android than Google does for goodness sake.
Apple users get fun and cool updates which is why they love it. Plus best in class photos and videos so they can share photos with friends and family with confidence, as opposed to android which has shit cameras and even shittier video.
Samsung does more for android than Google does for goodness sake.
I agree with you, even when I dislike One UI… I think Google although simpler is more of my liking… But oh boy stock AOSP is so limited that for some users it is even too similar to iOS, with the distinction that you can sideload easier (for now).
Lots of features that Google releases each Android iteration literally have been here in One UI, MIUI, Color OS you name it.
To be honest as an Android user, if Apple makes their phone less locked down and give more affordable choices for phones I may try an iPhone, as I am a bit fed up with Android, and there are no other real alternatives.
iPhone SE is their affordable line. Don’t see that changing anytime soon as it sells well.
It still costs nearly as much as minimal wage in my country (OK, ~$200 USD less), I am not going to buy it anytime soon.
Locked to trust them. I have been a long time iPhone user. Is by far the best mobile OS. Is overpriced , yes and since at this point of my life where I give less fucks , next one would be whatever good cheap crap I can get.
I’m happy with GrapheneOS on my Google Pixel. It’s basically Android without the Google crap. It’s not for everyone though.
That said, I’d really like a third option. iOS is too locked down, Android phones have short support cycles (getting better, and is a huge reason why I picked Pixel), and Linux phones have fundamental hardware and software issues. I’m sad Microsoft, Palm, and Blackberry all gave up, there were interesting things happening in the mobile space back then.
I switched to Graphene in December and I can’t say it enough, GrapheneOS is everything I wanted Android to be for the past 15 years.
Are persistent notifications still a requirement for background apps, such as Signal? One of the reasons I switched to CalyxOS. Not the Signal persistent notification specifically, but it, in combination with all the others I needed running in the BG, made it very difficult to not miss new notifications. I like CalyxOS just fine, but I agree with you on GrapheneOS. I was very excited that it was exactly as I’ve always wanted android to be (but wasn’t), except for those persistent notifications.
I haven’t had to do anything special for signal, Home Assistant has some issues with permissions and not always reporting back if its on in the background. Still trying to figure out why its fine on mine but not on my son’s phone.
The fine tuned controls for things like network access, storage and contact scopes, etc. are just amazing.
You don’t have a persistent (albeit silent) notification for Signal and still receive push notifications? If so, my next OS may just be GOS.
The fine tuned controls are different than stock android? I thought GOS doesn’t alter the stock experience (more than is required to decrapify the OS)?
No, the only persistent notification I have to put up with is Tasker.
I honestly can say how far from stock it is because I have no clue when the last time I saw unadulterated Android (if ever lol), but it doesn’t have a lot of crap added to it.
That’s really great to hear. I’m currently on CalyxOS and, besides the Google crap added to stock, it’s very close to the last time I used stock (granted, it’s been a hot minute). Next phone will likely be GrapheneOS, as I believe my posture has shifted since I decided on CalyxOS, and the lack of persistent notifications for background tasks (such as Signal) was the main deterrent that allowed me to settle into a more relaxed posture.
Same. I thought it would be a bigger change, but it turns out I only need 5-6 apps from the Play store, and 3 need Google Play services. I only need those periodically, so I leave them in a separate profile.
My main profile has a bunch of F-Droid apps and a few manually side-loaded that update themselves. It’s pretty nice! I have also disabled most permissions on most apps, far more than stock Android lets me do (esp. sensors permission).
It’s pretty much what I want from Android. There are a handful of things I wish it did (I like shaking the phone on my Moto to get the flashlight), but all in all it’s what I expect from Android. I still want a Linux phone though.
I use Tasker to handle stuff like shaking for a light, enabling certain DND settings, etc.
I would love a phone that could dock and be a desktop replacement, I’m fine with using moonlight or something else to reach back to a server for games or bigger lifts than my phone can handle.
Cool, I’ll have to play with Tasker. I just got it recently and I think I have all my data synced over, but I haven’t gotten too far in customization.
BTW, do you know of anything like Niagara launcher? I liked that one quite a bit, but I didn’t find anything FOSS to replace it. The default is okay, I just want something that only lists a handful of apps to reduce clutter.
I just use the default one and put a couple folders on the home screen (one for stores, one for games, one for media, one for utility), then a couple widgets on the next screen over.
Like math notes. And handwriting fonts. And a customisable control centre. And phone mirroring. And locking apps natively. And pretty much all of Apple Intelligence (particularly Genmoji because I want a hyena emoji and Unicode doesn’t have one).
Hold on. This control centre thing is really annoying me over here on Android. iOS separates notifications and control centre into two separate groups. I have to swipe down twice on Android to do what took a single swipe on iOS. On top of this, clearing all notifications closes the drawer after a delay, automatically. Why? I can close it faster myself, and sometimes, I want it to stay open, but NOPE!
And then the control centre itself. Volume control just… doesn’t exist (key word: CONTROL). Brightness (which I use often) is all the way at the top, rather than the middle. Then, the control centre is split into PAGES at HALF SIZE, and they’re all just wide rectangular buttons. Then, no volume control. What the HELL is this!? I could long press to get an easy brightness slider for my torch, everything internet related was quickly accessible in a single square, and now you’re telling me iOS is even FURTHER ahead?
Did I mention there’s NO. VOLUME. CONTROL. I have to press a volume button, then a tiny on-screen button after that, and then I get sliders after I wait for the menu to pop up. Granted, that’s sliders (plural), but fuck me. This one HURTS. I sometimes find the buttons a little bit too stiff, so I usually use on-screen controls during screen on, and buttons while off.
So much for owning my phone, since I can barely change any of this, and I can only see the way my control centre looks after I’ve edited it.
FUCK!
This absolute abhorrence. The Gods forsake this wretched control centre design. It is genuinely agonising using this afterthought of an interface. This cannot stand.
I have to swipe down twice on Android to do what took a single swipe on iOS.
swipe down with two fingers
Yooo that’s fire
Wtf how have I used android for this long without knowing?
This… works. Ultimately one of the smaller issues (and different swipe regions are just easier), but it’s a little faster.
I guess one-handed phones are really dead now
That doesn’t sound like my phone. Have you tried launchers? Or it could be specific to your manufacturer. That’s part of the problem with android - too many manufacturers wanting to customise their interface without a clear idea of what good UX is
I use Niagra. Launchers are home screen only. And, as long as I use anything related to stock Android, I’m stuck with this.
Android is 5 years ahead of iPhone 60% of the time
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Not anymore. That was true for a few years but iOS has definitely overtaken Android. Plus when you include the entire Apple devices ecosystem, Arcade, TV+, Homepod, Continuity etc iOS FAR, FAR outstrips Android.
Android is a stand alone device but iPhone is one piece in a mosaic of devices and services.
This is why now, after the last 4 years on Android, I’m switching back to iPhone.
Plus the hardware and cameras on budget Android devices are shit and I’m tried of paying for shit.
The Snapdragon 695 came out 3+ years ago and yet Qualcomm just released this year the Snapdragon 6s gen 3, which is … the 695 with a slightly higher clock speed… 🤦
For €300 - €550 they keep selling us the same junk with a different name and colour and I’m done with that bs.
they keep selling us the same junk with a different name and colour and I’m done with that bs.
Proceeds to buy an iPhone.
Except the iPhone isn’t junk - best in class CPU, best in class cameras, best in class accessories, magsafe, best in class security(FaceID), best in class messaging with iMessage, best in class emoji/animoji/memoji, best in class OS updates, busy in class animations and app design, best in class post sales service, best in class devices ecosystem…
Huge difference.
iPhones haven’t had best in class cameras in years. One of the pain points of moving to iPhone was giving up the superior camera experience of Google pixels and Samsung phones.
- Pixel is good but outside the US is barely available
- The only good Samsung cameras are on the Galaxy S line aka premium models. The rest of the phones, the ones most people buy, are crap.
For the price of a used iPhone there is NO phone that can take as good photos and videos
Not at all. iPhones are very capable point and shoot camera phones, but even at a more budget price point iPhone cameras haven’t been best in class in at least 5 or 6 years.
The pixel 5-6 were like $600 phones with unmatched cameras and even better camera software. The modern non-pro pixels like the 7 and 8 also beat out all but the pro max models of recent iPhones.
Similar to that the Samsung fan edition phones were beating out iPhone cameras at a $600 price point brand new.
That isn’t to say there’s anything wrong with iPhone cameras, but they’re not nearly the best either. Even at lower price points. Like it’s becoming quite clear that you are just saying things at this point because you really like iPhones. But almost none of the things you claim are remotely true.
I’m not saying that because I like iPhones.
You are in the US so pixels are widely available and cheap. As is the FE series.
Where I live, outside the US, the Pixel is not sold nor will Google let you buy it. So pixel is a no go.
The Fan Edition Samsung costs virtually the same as the regular edition where I live, if you can find an FE. It costs €700+…
99% of our population can only afford €250-300 phones. €700 is out of reach unless you’re single, hehe a great job and still live with mum and dad. Or you are the 1%.
So at that price ALL the android cameras are shit, shit, shit.
So, if I import from the UK a used iPhone 12 it will cost about €350. At that price NOTHING can touch it below €700.
Everything below €700 is Chinese cheapie and Samsung cheapie, also known as crap phones.
If you want good photos, buy a real camera with a good lens and learn to manipulate raw files. Smartphone pictures will only look good on a tiny screen. The amount of postprocessing that takes place without any of your input makes the photos look bland. That said, android phones do have the better hardware and by saving the raw files you at least get to develop the pictures yourself, the way you want it, sort of.
I have a great pocket camera but it’s not practical to carry it wherever I go. Most photos are taken spontaneously and for that reason you want a great camera on your smartphone.
Also, most Android phones cannot capture RAW.
You are using “they keep selling us the same junk with a different name” to justify apple? Hilarious.
As someone that flips between Samsung and iPhone they all are selling us the same shit every year. Smartphones in general have gotten stale. I can’t remember anything in the last 5 years that anyone has announced that made me think I have to upgrade my device. Maybe it’s just me but the tech seems boring now.
But android doesnt run the llm locally. Can someone please make a foss app that can do simmillar things.
No phones can run “LLMs” currently because by definition, large.
Some Android phones however can and does run smaller models locally. Gemini Nano runs on Pixel 8 and can run on Samsung phones.
There isn’t a FOSS app, but there is this
You could use this
The point of a local llm is u can give it access to contacts notes app control fucking everything simmillar to whaf apples done cool app tho.
Nobody cares nerds. Nobody.
