For a book, “Finland’s Holocaust: Silences of History” by Muir and Worthen provides decent context. For more specifics, the pioneering work of Elina Sana, particularly Luovutetut, should provide the later basis. The thing to focus on is how the intentional ignorance of what her work revealed was maintained for decades by a “if nobody looks or talks about it, Nobody will know” approach to Finland, whose whitewashed participation as a Nazi ally had been fairly thorough. Subsequent critics picked at the margins but her overall thesis and work holds up.
I have the book here in front of me and I think this is the part your’e thinking. From first book, talking about your second source:
Finland’s Holocaust: Silences of History, page 151.
Challenging the official figure of eight Jewish refugees handed over to the German authorities, Sana claimed that during the German–Finnish alliance, the Continuation War (1941–44), Finland extradited almost 3,000 civilians and POWs, among them approximately 100 Jews.
How you could turn that to thousands of handed over Jews, I don’t know. If some other part brings it up tenfold then I didn’t see it with a quick glance. I think you might’ve misread or misremembered that part since nowadays that doesn’t challenge what I said with “I’m not sure how you’ve counted it but the number for Jews who were given to the Germans was eight refugees and “some tens” of (Soviet) PoWs.” Some upper estimates got “up to a hundred” based on just the last names, but usually the number I’ve seen is below that since just the names can be very uncertain in Russian context.
Still horrible, no question about that, but I originally came to correct was this:
they were good people that didn’t send thousands of Jews to their deaths
I am looking at both but I honestly think you just made a mistake and thought the total number of extraditions was all Jews when the claim is just that “approximately 100” were.
If there’s part on either that goes against the quote shown, that jumps up the number tenfold (or more), I’d be happy to see it. But neither book nor any public discourse or (academic) reviews of the books seem to talk about anything but what I’ve quoted here. If the claim was thousands of Jewish victims and not “approximately 100”, from what I could find, everyone but you have read it differently or missed that part. And that would be really significant with how big of a disconnect there has been.
I think you’ve just misread or misremembered that part…
I’m sorry but they are just not saying what you thought they were. Thousands of extradited people yes, thousands of Jews no. If you have quotes to share or something then please do, because now it just seems like there’s been a mistake on your part.
It can be hard to admit to having been wrong, even when it’s an understandable mistake like this, but literally no one else read the books you mentioned and came away with thinking it was thousands of Jews. First book clearly says (citing the second) it was “approximately 100”. Thousands would be at least ten times that.
You are trying to convince me that these books have a ten times bigger number than what everyone else seems to think they said (including the author of the first book), but you can’t give any quotations, you can’t give anything concrete other than “it’s there trust me bro”.
I doubt anyone is buying what you are selling. Now would be a good time to either admit to the mistake or put money where your mouth is and actually cite the works like I have.
I did cite works. You have decided that your guessing based on Googling is better than reading the books cited. I cannot fix your laziness. You asked for things to read and I provided them. I cannot, unfortunately, make you read them instead of bullshitting.
Sana estimated 500 from a single deportation, by the way.
For a book, “Finland’s Holocaust: Silences of History” by Muir and Worthen provides decent context. For more specifics, the pioneering work of Elina Sana, particularly Luovutetut, should provide the later basis. The thing to focus on is how the intentional ignorance of what her work revealed was maintained for decades by a “if nobody looks or talks about it, Nobody will know” approach to Finland, whose whitewashed participation as a Nazi ally had been fairly thorough. Subsequent critics picked at the margins but her overall thesis and work holds up.
I have the book here in front of me and I think this is the part your’e thinking. From first book, talking about your second source:
Finland’s Holocaust: Silences of History, page 151.
How you could turn that to thousands of handed over Jews, I don’t know. If some other part brings it up tenfold then I didn’t see it with a quick glance. I think you might’ve misread or misremembered that part since nowadays that doesn’t challenge what I said with “I’m not sure how you’ve counted it but the number for Jews who were given to the Germans was eight refugees and “some tens” of (Soviet) PoWs.” Some upper estimates got “up to a hundred” based on just the last names, but usually the number I’ve seen is below that since just the names can be very uncertain in Russian context.
Still horrible, no question about that, but I originally came to correct was this:
You’ve gotta read both books
I am looking at both but I honestly think you just made a mistake and thought the total number of extraditions was all Jews when the claim is just that “approximately 100” were.
If there’s part on either that goes against the quote shown, that jumps up the number tenfold (or more), I’d be happy to see it. But neither book nor any public discourse or (academic) reviews of the books seem to talk about anything but what I’ve quoted here. If the claim was thousands of Jewish victims and not “approximately 100”, from what I could find, everyone but you have read it differently or missed that part. And that would be really significant with how big of a disconnect there has been.
I think you’ve just misread or misremembered that part…
Like I said, read both books
I’m sorry but they are just not saying what you thought they were. Thousands of extradited people yes, thousands of Jews no. If you have quotes to share or something then please do, because now it just seems like there’s been a mistake on your part.
Instead of guessing incorrectly, you could read the materials I offered. I don’t know why you believe your lazy guesswork is better than my reading.
I will give you one hint but to be honest at this point it is being too nice: POWs.
It can be hard to admit to having been wrong, even when it’s an understandable mistake like this, but literally no one else read the books you mentioned and came away with thinking it was thousands of Jews. First book clearly says (citing the second) it was “approximately 100”. Thousands would be at least ten times that.
You are trying to convince me that these books have a ten times bigger number than what everyone else seems to think they said (including the author of the first book), but you can’t give any quotations, you can’t give anything concrete other than “it’s there trust me bro”.
I doubt anyone is buying what you are selling. Now would be a good time to either admit to the mistake or put money where your mouth is and actually cite the works like I have.
I did cite works. You have decided that your guessing based on Googling is better than reading the books cited. I cannot fix your laziness. You asked for things to read and I provided them. I cannot, unfortunately, make you read them instead of bullshitting.
Sana estimated 500 from a single deportation, by the way.