Selling iPhones made outside US: bad
Selling MAGA hats and swag made in China: art of the deal
Step 1. Add Tarrifs.
Step 2. Wait till the share price falls.
Step 3. Buy in low.
Step 4. Lift the tariffs again.
Step 5. Wait till the share price rises.
Step 6. Profit.
Once again. Companies do NOT pay tariffs. They pass on those costs of those tariffs to their customers. YOU are gonna pay that extra 25% not Apple.
that’s fine. iphones are so cheap, people can handle even 50% tariffs. apple is worth every penny /s.
going to buy a cmf phone 2 now…
Yeah. I’m typing this on a $300 Chinese phone with 10600mAH battery, reverse wireless charging, a thermal imaging camera, and it’s waterproof and shock resistant.
I have strongly considered the Armor line. Which is what I’m assuming you’re talking about
It’s 27T Pro. I like it better than the iPhone it replaced.
The only downsides I’ve seen so far are that it requires a separate app for wifi calling and it has fewer zoom options for the camera. I’d like to figure out how to get the IR blaster to read signals (so I can easily clone my remotes).
It’s extremely misleading to say “companies do not pay tariffs” and then immediately explain that companies do indeed pay tariffs.
how long is it going to take, before you realize its too late? if they didn’t realize by now, they aren’t going to
Trump will never ever admit he’s wrong, but I’m curious how the voters will react when everything costs 50% more all of a sudden.
They’ll probably blame Biden somehow, but I’m curious still
He’s already called all the stock market turmoil “Biden’s market”, hilariously.
Unless the companies eat the tariffs. But greedy companies will pass them on
Is it only tariff costs that are passed on to employees and customers or are all corporate tax costs passed on to employees and customers?
At the end of the day it’s all of it. Some of it is built into their existing model, some of it is constant etc but they include it all in the calculations to come up with the prices. New costs like these tariffs get added to the overall margin calculation and a new price is set.
Still there is another side of it that also interesting. These companies has done their calculations so the cost of the product is perfect. Increasing that price means less people will buy the product.
Increasing that price means less people will buy the product.
Unless your competitors are also facing the same forced price increase.
The Art of Extortion.
What about the components? Should they also be produced in the US?
Let’s be clear, producing the iPhone in the US would be more than a 25% cost increase.
This isn’t about making Apple make iPhones in the US. This is a 25% tax on everyday Americans that the fascists will blame on Apple for not making iPhones in the US and use to give tax breaks to the rich. Trump and his cabal are reverse Robin Hooding the American people and 70 million of them are lining up to lick his boots for it.
The US is turning into my games of stellaris a little bit more everyday. Oh boy you sure dont want to be in my games of stellaris guys.
You know that is somewhat true. What everyone could see when I was kid has come to pass. The people like trump and the actual billionaires in this country sold us out then. They sold us out by moving all the manufacturing offshore. Now these same greedy trash humans want all that back since they have realized that the ability to manufactures products was the United States real power. They delivered millions of my parents generation into poverty and wage slavery to make a buck by moving the job overseas. Now these horrible people and their followers are doing the same thing to try to get it back. They don’t understand nor do they care about the real people in this country. Only about themselves.
Their followers who are not profiting from this must be really, really stupid.
The reason why manufacturing was moved offshore was because it cost more money to produce the goods in the states and they had to adhere to us regulation. Products are cheap because they’re build offshore. No one actually wants the factory jobs back in the states because they’ll be too expensive to produce, and a lot of the jobs will be done by bots anyway. If the iPhone was the be built in the states it would cost $3.5k. Billionaires want a peasant class. They’re envious of China - lots of low educated people earning nothing working long hours. Billionaires have low self esteem.
Yes of course it was because of money. They couldn’t see it then and they cant see it now.
Well those regulations are virtually non existent. Can pay lip service but who is going to enforce it
Their followers who are not profiting from this must be really, really stupid.
And they’re the ‘good’ ones!
Did trump just confuse a possessive s for a plural s?
He still has absolutely no clue how tariffs work. Amazing for someone who throws them left and right without thinking. Although the latter might explain it.
The worst take from his opposition: “trumps such a dumb idiot”. And it’s why the left gets out-maneuvered; they imagine those on the right as only either 1. Imbeciles 2. Racists.
The right sees the left as cunning, and strategizes how to outplay them.
The left sees the right as backwards morons, and strategizes how to insult them. It seems to be the main play, and is doing him a favor by shutting down closer examination.
Trump is a demented moron who has no fucking idea what’s going on.
His faceless staff, led by Stephen Miller, are very smart and know exactly what they’re doing.
if that’s the case, if he’s just an idiot puppet, why spend energy attacking him and his character specifically? It doesn’t persuade anyone on the right, and it doesn’t help the left focus on the people pulling the strings.
The news, and left leaning communities online, have told me every day for 8+ years that trump is stupid, etc. What’s the point?
I dunno, why are we still talking about Bidens brain so often? Because it’s salacious. The absolute most braindead motherfucker is president, again, and people are pissed
It blows my mind when people say he has a reason for his tarriffs and it’s about enrichen his friends. He’s braindead and tarriffs is just the new word he learned. Tim Apple is gonna be mad.
What does he not understand correctly here?
It’s coming true.
And again “tariff must be paid by Apple” really shows that he still has no idea how they work.
Made in India + 25% tariff is still cheaper than made in Murica.
That BS is just for media.
And it’s actually usable.
Tbf the labor will be done by the minorities and undesirables they will keep throwing in prison without due process
along with the poor white folk who voted for him.
That sounds like a nice mix where nothing terrible could happen. Tons of black and brown people surrounded by the poor white rural idiots that disenfranchised both of their lives.
I wonder if he knows apple simply can not comply with this. Apple doesn’t know how to make iPhones (at the scale and rate needed) and no one in the US does either.
RIP
This past Monday, John Stewart of The Daily Show interviewed Patrick Mcgee who discussed the jaw-dropping amounts of money Apple spent building out Chinese electronics supply chains which had deep implications. -It made for an interesting case if true.
He still doesn’t understand how tariffs work…
I see the problem here. He’s talking to Tim Cook, who’s CEO of some cooking company. He needs to talk to Tim Apple.
He’s actually cooking apple pies. Or is it called baking? Is it Tim Bake?
No, tim doesn’t get baked, but we’re planning on it tonight
I want to elect Pine for the next CEO
you fucking idiot, it’s NEVER EVER EVER coming to the US.
NEVER.
a 25% increase in cost is still MUCH more preferable to bringing all of that shit to the US. probably by orders of magnitude. can you even fathom (of course you can’t) what you would need to do to have a 100% American iphone?
let’s say you’re bringing the iphone manufacturing plant to the US. let’s even assume this move is subsidized so the new factory is going to cost only time.
the iphone isn’t put together from mere atoms. parts of it need to be manufactured first. there’s the screen, the glass, the aluminum case, several cameras, the battery, the ram, the storage, the CPU, the GPU, the receiver, accelerometer, gyroscope, etc etc… how much of that shit do you think is made in the USA?
so there’s tariffs an all of that. or to avoid them you need to make several new factories, and have other companies that provide these things also move their factories… and these factories don’t just have people create electronics by hand. you need machines. where do you think those are made? who makes them? so now you need the manufacturers of manufacturing robots to move their factories to the US.
and all these factories now employ people with much higher salaries.
all in all, a move like that would halt production for years and when it comes back every iphone would probably cost $47000.
THIS IS WHY TARIFFS NEVER WORK. In the long term tariffs actually encourage manufacturing to leave the country charging tariffs, not move manufacturing there. It’s much cheaper to pay the tariffs once, on the final product, than to pay the tariffs on every part that is required moving back and forth across an “imaginary line” (border in Trump-speak).
None of Trump’s tariff bolstering hurts Apple at all. They are a global company and can easily adjust around the asinine policies of America for a few years. Americans will get sick of paying a minimum of 25% more for EVERYTHING, while the rest of the world continues on as if nothing happened. Eventually Americans will see that the rest of the world has all the nice things and they’ve become a self imposed Soviet-era block country that has nothing and has to line up for toilet paper, and they’ll be right pissed. Until then, enjoy your delusion. 👏
The other problem with moving manufacturing due to tariffs is that tariffs can always be changed, whereas moving manufacturing is a longer term investment that can cost millions, if not billions when it comes to things like chip fabs. No one wants to make an investment like that, only to have their investment suddenly become worthless because some politician decided to change how the tariffs work.
Trump’s idiotic and constant flip-flopping on these tariffs have completely destroyed any chance of them actually accomplishing anything (not that they really had a great chance of that in the first place, but anyway…), because no one is going to move a factory to the US when Trump can and will change his mind based upon a whim or whoever is whispering in his ear that moment.
tariffs could work if you’re not the US. the problem is the US doesn’t make anything.
for normal countries you could use tariffs to encourage products made inside the country. but for that to haopen:
- you need the products to already be manufactured inside the country
- you need to have targeted tariffs that apply specifically to those products and not blanket tariffs that would apply to each and every part of product, which would make it infinitely more expensive to manufacture inside the country than outside.
so for example if your country has a decent production of bananas but people for some reason prefer to buy imported bananas way more than homemade ones, you might have some tariffs on bananas to try and reduce waste.
for that to be effective, you can’t also have tariffs on soil, farming equipment and whatnot that might be going into your homemade potato production. otherwise you’d have homemade potatoes more expensive then imported ones.
Blind, overall tariffs can’t work anywhere.
Pretty much every country, including US, has successfully applied targeted tariffs to specific things for specific reasons. Usually you’re protecting an existing industry, but you could even build a supply chain by balancing it with targeted incentives, and bringing them together with a long term strategy to grow that specific segment.
For example, we used to have a complex strategy for helping legacy car manufacturers transition to new technology. We had incentives to build a market, manufacturing incentives and other assistance, we had targeted loans and guided research to build the technology, obtain the resources, build the infrastructure, we had well targeted tariffs protecting them from specific “predatory” countries, and much more. In a decade or so, our legacy automakers would have transitioned to new technology, with at least similar manufacturing presence in the us and a strong global presence. It was slow, bumbling and inconsistent but it would have worked. Now we’re likely to end up with failing manufacturers unable to compete on the global market, and with their us market shrinking to nothing as they continue to focus on large, inefficient, outdated, polluting technology that can only be sold locally.
It’s because Donald can’t envisage the supply chain for anything more complex than a Trump flag or a MAGA hat.
In his mind, housewives can be knocking iPhones out in Bumfuck, Mississippi.
Fun you should bring up his merch because literally all of it is Chinese or Indian produced.
Excuse me, sir. There is no town in Mississippi called “Bumfuck”. That town is firmly within the boundaries of Iowa.
Mississippi would never stoop to the level of Iowa in having Bumfuck, Iowa. Mississippi is more elegant in its nomenclature. Thus, if you wish to make a point about a town in the middle of nowhere in Mississippi, please respect Mississippi by referring to such a town as Cousin-Hump, Mississippi. Thank you.
I drove all over that state looking for Bumfuck and never found it. Pretty ornery bunch, too…
Did you ask around? I’m sure you can go into any biker bar in that state and ask for bumfuck
If that… I imagine they were white label products so not even those taught him anything
We don’t even have silicon availability. I don’t mean chips or printed boards, I mean processed quarts crushed into powder.
We would have to start opening strip mines and building massive furnaces and crushers and expanding railways. It’s just not feasible.
But we can just import some of the things we need as we build up the more valuable end of supply chains. I’m sure they’ve thought of that and there are no tariffs impeding those prerequisites, right? Right?
and expanding railways
Do it.
Rest assured if they fix the rail system or will be to put us in cattle cars on a rather unfun one way trip.
Yeah fr we should, but we haven’t and we probably won’t so it’s silly to expect the manufacturing to pop up out of thin air.
Based on the numbers from Purism, it could be a lot more than 25% more expensive to manufacture everything in USA. Purims Librem 5 costs 799 $, while the made-in-America version costs 1999 $. That’s roughly a 2.5x difference. Obviously, economies of scale play a role too but let’s assume that the same factor applies to iPhones too. If so, the fanciest iPhone would cost about 4000 $.
Ts the entire supply chain that’s the problem. I keep reading stories about Apple pre-buying the entire output of factories for multiple years. For the thousands of parts in a modern phone, how do you expect entire parts industries to spring up overnight on the scale that Apple sells phones? Then entire resource and tooling chains to support those? And we’re making it even more impossible with blindly applying tariffs everywhere so you couldn’t even get established
too lazy to check but does the “made in America” version have all its parts also made in America? coz i doubt it. if not, each and every part made outside the US would also get tariffed.
No, the US Purism phone is not 100% American.
They have a different supply chain for it where European manufacturers are used for some parts.
But some things are only made in China. So I think what was said is Purism source some of the raw materials for these items and have them made to a higher tolerance for reliability.
John Oliver did a segment on this about a month ago, but yeah, you just nailed it.
damn it’s been a while since I’ve watched him. it’s just all been current events lately and even though I’m keeping up with the news, i couldn’t watch him because the way his show covers things usually make things much more depressing. I’ve instead been venting here and shit. I’m gonna have to catch up though eventually, it’s still very informative.
Nah I’m with you. I loved him back in the TDS days but over time his show started to get stale, to me
i don’t think it’s stale just to be clear, bad things are just happening too fast. there’s nothing TDS can do about it really.
Fair, I just stopped liking his show for some reason. I was pretty happy that Jon Stewart came back though
🫢
Bro really went off on him…
And they’d still need to maintain their non-US factories due to the retaliatory tariffs many countries are putting on US products.
That McGee book is pretty startling. $55B USD per year for how many years to develop plant and expertise in China over the past decade or two and that’s going to be reversed how exactly?
I mean, if the US can swing it, good for them, but it’s a bit like asking parents to produce Usain Bolt immediately or pay 25% higher income tax.
Plus a consistent supportive economic policy. I haven’t read the book to know what’s included in that $55B, but I know it’s been a long term effort and no business will try to build such capability in chaos and personality cults.
Republicans talk about being best for business is sort of like their “family values”: mostly talk, mostly opposite
Most of the Iphone is not Chinese, the screens are made by Samsung in Korea, and the chips are from Taiwan. Only the fiddly final assembly is done in China.
But he wants it all American. Not just non-Chinese.
this is not about china
