And another thing you can add to that fact is that Windows users gets to enjoy the best of the Linux apps. VLC, Gimp, Audacity, OBS, etc. That’s a big reason why Windows is even usable for an average user.

Around half my applications on Windows were FOSS even before I moved to Linux and I used them for a long time. The proprietary apps I did use, I don’t really miss. I also doubt anybody actually likes having to install drivers on Windows or browse the web for apps. It’s just extra bullshit.

Windows users? I mean the reason why Linux users proclaim the superiority of Linux is because Windows users always say that they want to leave Windows but XYZ doesn’t work or Linux, making Linux look like it’s feature poor which isn’t the case.

Android is the evil version of Linux or the anti-Linux if you will.

Yes I think you’re right, there’s probably a significant overlap in the target audience of GOG and Linux users. I guess the reason why GOG hasn’t released a Linux version of GOG Galaxy might be because a large portion of their catalogue is Windows and doesn’t want to include something like Proton or Wine support. I don’t think it absolves them from criticism however.

I love this comment! Yeah it’s true, I’m the arch linux user you’re describing! So is there a good middle ground according to you? Where we can have faster updates, high application support and high customization without the downsides of arch that you describe?

If you have several kernels you might want to disable the fallback kernels. You do so in the .preset files in /etc/mkinitcpio.d/

But yeah this is the downside of using flatpaks. That’s why I think it’s better to avoid flatpaks and other similar sandbox environments. I know the Linux community are desperate for the increased stability and supposed benefits to security but you’re paying the price in worse performance and high disk usage.

Personally it hasn’t worked well for me. Currently I can’t even use it since it crashes my system.

Not even MS alone, it seems that my American colleagues are vendor locked in several different ways. It’s a bit bewildering honestly.

Well it depends on your DE. If you run Gnome, you will probably be fine. If you run Plasma you can run into problems but supposedly Plasma 6.0 is going to release with full Wayland support at the end of this year (or beginning of next one) so lets hold our thumbs for that.

Personally I’ve ever only used Gimp even when I was on Windows. I wonder what gimp could possibly even do better to compete with photoshop. There’s also krita of course which is very popular but I’ve never tried it, gimp has just been everything I’ve ever needed from a drawing program.

I use Lutris to install my GOG games, Battle.NET, EA launcher, and Ubisoft Play. It’s a very simple solution.

What a problem to have when your engineering team’s skill set are vendor locked. Not that I’m familiar with autodesk or why you absolutely have to use it, but your engineers could perhaps learn to use blender and use a Linux desktop environment and potentially save a lot of money in licenses and subscriptions.

Oh piss off. All evidence I have points to that you’re lying.

A good alternative is abiword. Don’t know if it exists on Windows tho.

There is no difference between the maturity of wayland and the plasma port. The maturity of wayland hinges on its usage. Thats what this topic is about.

It’s after all the cited reason for the limited support for wayland (outside of gnome apparently).

You claim wayland is widely adopted but you’re lying about that. Most applications still require xwayland as far as my experience is concerned. So why would I accept your arguments?

Your argument is basically that it works on gnome and since gnome is used by the biggest distributions so it works on most things. It sounds like the goal of wayland as you describe it is to work on gnome and nothing else. It’s “a thing for gnome”. Am I understanding you correctly?

You need to understand the difference between the quality of Wayland itself and the specific implementation of a compositor but you don’t. “Plasma’s Wayland port is incomplete, so Wayland developers should consider it a failed project and work on X11 instead” as an attitude just makes zero sense.

Now you’re using a complete strawman here. I never said it’s because the Wayland port is incomplete but because I think it doesn’t work on key software in 2023. Wayland had its first release in 2008, that’s 15 years ago, that’s a long time and if there’s still questions about its maturity then that’s a fatal flaw. Maybe it even says something if downstream developers have to port it instead of being able to just switch out X11, but of course that might just as well be a quirk of X11.

You initially said that most applications in general are not compatible with Wayland and that’s untrue. If you personally happen to mainly use only outdated Electron applications, that’s your problem but doesn’t reflect of the state of the wider ecosystem. Qt 5&6 and GTK 3&4 applications run on Wayland and most don’t even need a dedicated Wayland port.

It doesn’t? Don’t get me wrong it’s great that Wayland works on so many QT and GTK applications, but if it doesn’t work on the key applications users interact with daily, then it’s kind of a moot point, isn’t it?

No, but it is a fact that Gnome is ahead in Wayland support and all major distributions (Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, RHEL) default to Gnome with Wayland, therefore your claim of low adoption is just wrong.

Yeah you have a point, Gnome is certainly popular but is that because of Wayland or other reasons? I think Wayland support isn’t the reason why Gnome is recommended by default and I think it’s a bad idea to even recommend Gnome by default because it deviates too far from Windows design which most people would be most familiar with. A better choice would be KDE in my opinion but ofc as we have discussed KDE has its own downsides.

KDE doesn’t push anything down your throat, you’re just incapable to replace KWin with an alternative, even though at least one wlroots-based one exists.

KDE used to be able to switch out the compositor in the gui, but they removed that feature. And kwin comes with plasma by default. True I can definitively replace kwin but I don’t currently know how to and I don’t want to break plasma either.

The reason is that Wayland support in Plasma will only be finalized by 6.0, therefore you’re using an experimental feature.

Okay so I need to use X11 because you think the Wayland support for KDE Plasma isn’t finalized? Well consider the fact that on Linux no support is ever “finalized”. Even something that should be mature like pipewire still causes issues from time to time. Or even bash itself. Most likely Wayland will still not work consistently past Plasma 6.0. I don’t put much faith into your claim.

I think that you’re factually wrong about me being wrong about Wayland support. Most applications I use still run xwayland. Steam for example cannot be run in Wayland, Discord and some other applications only works through Electron which I admittedly don’t know a lot about but doing so seems like running it through yet another compatibility layer. Therefore I wouldn’t consider an application run through Electron as Wayland compatible either.

Your post paints the picture that Wayland is “just a thing for Gnome”, but I’m not going to change to Gnome to run Wayland. Of course nothing ill meant toward Gnome users but I think Gnome is ugly as sin and hard to work with. Maybe my negative perception of Wayland would change if it had better support for KDE. Or if KDE had better Wayland support as this could also be an issue with the kWin rather than Wayland. I have to admit, I’ve never liked kWin either. I mean as much as I love Plasma, I think the compositor coupled with it is generally dogshit and unstable and it’s a travesty KDE pushes kWin so hard down my our throats.

Wayland developers are X11 developers. Wayland if the official successor to X11 because its developers agreed that X11 is too broken to be worth it.

Of course I know that, but if Wayland has such low support and low adoption and “just a thing for gnome” then maybe Wayland isn’t so successful after all is what I’m saying. Kind of a bad result to work on a display server that only really works well on Gnome and leaving KDE out in the dark.

No it would make me feel better if Wayland ran properly.

If you must use ubuntu, you’ll ultimately be tied to the desktop environments that ubuntu offers. Personally I don’t think ubuntu works well, especially outside of their gnome offshoot Unity DE. If you must use ubuntu I would say install kubuntu which has KDE Plasma on it. KDE Plasma is highly customizable, quite pretty and pretty easy to use.

I’ve been trying Wayland for quite some time, but Wayland is a chore to work with and most applications still needs to use the xwayland compatibility solution anyway. After a long time of using it I decided to just switch to X11 and save myself the stress. However after seeing this and reading some comments I decided to try it out yesterday (maybe stuff has changed?) and then turned off my PC and went to bed, then today kwin_wayland started crashing for no reason. For a supposedly superior display server, it sure has a lot of issues and low adoption.

Maybe the Wayland developers should consider it a failed project and work on X11 instead?